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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 00:01:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: TornSoul
.... selective memory......
I am quite shocked that you have chosen to omit one of the key factors that caused CFS/UFS to crumble as quickly as they did.
CFS/UFS had the intention of also capturing querious.. and who was there at the time TornSoul?
Was in not QDF/FIX (Querious Defence Force) that broke the 100 man CFS fleet that came to take Querious?
Was it not the QDF/FIX fleets that then blocked the A2-V27 pipeline and *NEVER* allowed another UFS/CFS fleet of any significance to enter the south?
The QDF broke the CFS's back and handed victory to you on a silver platter. CFS got gangbanged by us in Querious and yourselves in PB/Delve.. only we did most of the heavy lifting.
Truth is FIX killed CFS to all intents and purposes... they would have lasted a whole lot longer if we hadn't been there.... primarily cause SA would have intervened, in CFS's favour.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 00:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: TornSoul
Like I said nez - My post is incomplete. Lots of details missing.
I tried to keep it to just things concerning PB (but yes strayed a bit of course as well).
... well if you are gonna tell a story tell it right...
Consider it a personal favour that I helped you fill in those missing *details*...
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 02:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 28/07/2006 02:21:19
Originally by: Doppleganger
This post is about Delve and PB and who was there before Band of Brothers Nez... We only lived Querious so we have little to do with this thread since we never lived in Delve or PB.
We did effect the region by controling our part of the pipe but never spent time living there or occupying territory there so <shrug>.
.. Tornsoul broached the subject in his post...
Originally by: Tornsoul
Needless to say, when that fatefull EVEmail hit my inbox... The FA FC's where given their orders - "Retake the stations".(Delve/Querious and PB).
And.. Needless to say, the CFS(/UFS) would ofc not just let this happen...
I still remember beeing the one having to give the FC's the order... And effectivly signing the CFS(/UFS) Death Warrant...
(This after a FA vote was done. - The necessary amount of persons to do a vote was quickly gotten together)
CFS(/UFS) died 2-3 days later - Thats all it took.
DSMA howver fought on in PB for the longest of times though - 2-3 months? But eventually moved out.
... I simply filled in some missing *details* pertaining to the quoted section....besides any history of PB/Delve after a certain time period, without including FIX is retarded, as FIX controlled the A-2 pipe and were the gatekeepers for the south-west...
Besides having a little dig at me.. the point of your post was....???
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 02:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 28/07/2006 02:34:47
Originally by: Doppleganger
Controlled the pipe... maybe we just patrolled the pipe since that was a part we never claimed. Many ppl that lived in and owned Delve and PB passed through the pipe we only stopped CFS when made made the turn in the pipe we controlled which has more to do with Querious space then Delve and PB.
... I'm sorry but your last post made no sense whatsoever... maybe you want to edit it.. cause as it stands its little more than gibberish....
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 03:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Doppleganger
I will simplify it for you then Nez... As everyone knows we didn't claim A-2 -> 7GC we only patrolled it... FIX only took notice when ppl entered G-3Bog and headed toward Q space.
I agree with Tornsoul's rendition the major players for Delve and PB were FA, DSMA, StA, Shinra, M3G4 and finally BOB. They were the ones that did the majority of changing that region over the history of EVE.
.
... how little do you know....don't argue with me dobbleganger...I was leadership of QDF/FIX at the time..
anything that happened in Delve/PB after a certain time period was inextricably linked with FIX wether directly or indirectly.
After CFS died.. there were two powers in the south-east..
FIX and FA .. their interaction defined what happened to PB and Delve, which to all intents and purposes became wastelands or rather areas where FA conducted experiments in regional population.
If you want somebody to argue with me at least do me the courtesy of sending somebody who held a little more rank.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 03:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Doppleganger
Originally by: Nez Perces
After CFS died.. there were two powers in the south-east..
Southwest
..thx for the correction.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 16:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Machiavelli7
Tornsoul's account strikes me as fairly accurate.
FIX's biggest tactical blunder, IMO, was not going to PB to kick Shinra out when they had the chance.
The ramifications of this non-event set the stage for the current political landscape.
... there are things that no FIX CEO or director at the time had knowledge of...
one of those things is what FA leadership was really like...(if FIX had known.. what they were really like.. we wouldn't have been their allies for very long..)
Some people think BoB are machiavellian in their politics... well FA were the masters at it... at the time FA still had a lot of clout.. and was still dreaming of a unified South holding hands with Triggers SA.
Do you really think FA would have let us have PB, considering Tornsoul's obsession with it?
Do your really think FIX never had designs on sections of Delve?
Why do you think the FA <> FIX relationship kept deteriorating? .. to the point where we cut them loose to their destiny with BoB.
The south.. until BoB arrived was like an old boy's network.... with Trigger on one side and Tornsoul on the other.. FIX was stuck between these two self-serving entities. We didnt always have a lot of choices....
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 17:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: dabster
Basicly, Nez: stop being bitter, ranting makes you look really silly.
CFS/DSMA were doomed from the first shots fired on the stations, what FIX did or did not do to prevent them getting numbers or whatever - doesnt amtter. They never had any numbers anywhere to match FA's anyway.
... well I guess that was FA's problem all along... i.e overestimating its military capabilities.... CFS with the A2- pipe open would have kept supplies coming into the area... had the conflict dragged on.. more parties would have gotten involved...
Originally by: Tornsoul
DSMA howver fought on in PB for the longest of times though - 2-3 months? But eventually moved out.
Explain how DSMA managed to keep on fighting in deepest PB even when CFS/UFS itself had disbanded...... is it possible they were getting assistance from SA?
I'm telling it how it happened....
If people think thats being bitter.... tough luck.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 19:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 28/07/2006 19:44:13
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
The following is the official account from the Crisis Corp Diary, written by Haldane Iv:
Quote:
...... they joined forces with DSMA and QDF to do this under the ôUnited Free Spaceö (UFS) banner and hostilities ...
..... Efforts to defend Period Basis were then hampered when QDF split from UFS command with the objective of claiming and defending the Querius region for themselves.
Read my chronicles for more fictionalised accounts of the history...
.. thats not a bad account of events pertaining to the CFS/UFS wars as far as the FIX side of the story is concerned.. except for a slight detail.. QDF was never part of UFS/CFS and QDF never once fired on FA forces.
In effect the creation of QDF was authorised by Black Avatar and by implication FA (Black Avatar was part of FA by that time and was the station owner in Querious)... Black Avatar had two FC's in the QDF chain of command.... QDF would have never sided with UFS in that campaign for a single reason...
It would have torn us apart.....
Indeed they were good times... full of intrigue and drama.. 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 19:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor
Much <3 Nez. Peas in a pod be you and me. Good times!
<3
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.29 00:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/07/2006 00:31:19
... I do believe there is some confusion over timelines here..
.. Yes there was an entity called CFS defence force where Boldyn was an FC and Pastor Wallace was the man in charge..... however this was short lived and came to an abrubt end when it became obvious that CFS defence force was intent on gaining political power to eventually overthrow Black Avatar and any other entity associated with FA..... (Boldyn resigned on account of the ulterior motives Pastor Wallace had...)
... however this is not to be confused with the Querious Defence Force ..... the Querious Defence Force was a blueprint to enable the inhabitants of Querious (independent of any other entity) to group together and fend off attacks from a variety of groups.. ranging from Mo0 to CA to pirates such as Burn Eden. Whilst initially concieved as a non-political entity (primarily to avoid the torn loyalties existant in Querious, primarily towards Black Avatar), after the CFS wars it became obvious that QDF had evolved into a regional power...... this is when the inhabitants of Querious put their foot down and declared their intentions to govern themselves.. no matter what.
I just got back from the pub and I'm drunk....have a nice evening...
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.29 11:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/07/2006 12:01:01
Originally by: Doppleganger
/Me points to the ops thread title and wonder why talk seems to gravitate to what happened in Q space.
Lets get back to what happened in Delve and PB.
Its very simple doppleganger and Ive explained it a couple of times now... you can't talk about Delve/PB after a certain period without talking about what happened in Querious, its impossible and pointless.
The CFS war was fought between FA + QDF <> CFS, so you have to talk about Querious there, then afterwards delve and PB were wastezones.
When you have two strong entities (FIX and FA) on either side of two regions (PB and Delve) that were to all intents and purposes wastezones/political footballs, anything that the two stronger entities get up to has an effect on those regions.
Querious, Delve and PB were a trio... they were inextricably linked geographically and politically anything that happened around Querious had a direct impact on the residents further south as the inhabitants of Querious were the gatekeepers to the A2- pipe. You must remember also that in those days that was the only connection to empire the three regions had. The other two entries were via SA and FA.
I mean think about it SA on one side, FA on the other and FIX controlling the gateway.
Delve/PB after the CFS wars became political timebombs.....
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.29 12:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/07/2006 12:08:33
Originally by: Araviel
I am sorry if I made it sound like CFS was behind the creation of QDF, no you guys got it all started, but CFS was supportive and I worked hard to lobby for it whitin CFS.
I remember this clearly because CFS decision to eventually turn on QDF was the reason I left the alliance.
its nice to know you appreciated my support.
I do remember Araviel being one of the voices within CFS that thought QDF was a great idea and throughout our development Araviel was always very supportive.
I also remember the joint operations between SA/FIX/FA/Xetic to organise military campaigns against CA.
That was the first attempt at a united South that I can remember.. .. what I cant remember is the name of the effort.. It was brilliantly organised and I know Araviel sunk a lot of time into it.
Random titbit : Araviel.. sounded very similar to Avariel :).. CEO of BlackAvatar when the CFS wars broke out.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.30 15:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/07/2006 15:30:42
HaldaveIV, its great that you have put together a piece describing the events leading up to and including the CFS wars. Kudos to you
However.. I do believe that the true nature of QDF(which evolved into FIX) is being misrepresented.
Querious was a bit of an oddball compared to PB and Delve. Querious had several very strong corporations that had lived there for a long time and bore no strong allegiances to CFS or FA. Corps such as Ascendancy, Black Avatar, Obsidian Asylumn, Imperium Technologies, JHENR (a more recent arrival), Dark Centuri, Band of Builders, etc.. all good strong corps.
There was one glaring exception though .... Black Avatar.
Black Avatar was a powerhouse, a corporation that was the dominant force in Querious, however, its dominance was political more than military.
Black Avatar controlled the stations in Querious under the overall jurisdiction of CFS... it really was just a show... BA ran things with minimal CFS interfence. At one point BA (for reasons largely unknown... perhaps worried by increased friction between FA and CFS.. Yodaron or Avernus can give the exact reasons if they wish..  ) decided to join FA. The effect of this on Querious very large indeed.
The other largest corp in Querious was Ascendancy.. between Black Avatar and Ascendancy they had timezones covered.. BA was largely US timezone and Ascendancy was largely Euro timezone. A perfect match right?
Wrong.. the two corps hated eachother.... and hated eachother even more when BA joined FA. Many in Querious felt slightly betrayed. Now FA had a direct say in Querious affairs as the implicit owners of the stations.
This is the powderkeg backdrop for the birth of QDF.... what really catalysed QDF wasn't anybody from FA or anybody from CFS... it was the likes of Burn Eden, CA, Mo0 etc.. treating Querious like a punching bag.. we were on the front line in the south... all the 'bad guys' hit us first.
This is where JHENR steps in ... we were up and coming and relatively newish to the area.. and tbh had little time for the disputes between FA, CFS, Black Avatar and Ascendancy. The QDF was a blueprint to bring all of Querious together under a military chain of command with no political motivations.. simply to do what it said on the tin.... defend Querious.
Unfortunately as it happened Ascendancy and Black Avatar never managed to work together and as Yodaron has said Ascendancy were driven out of the region or left of their own accord.. depends who you talk to.
Either way the QDF got the green light from Black Avatar.. yes the green light.. it would have never been allowed to seed if Yodaron had not recognised a good thing when he saw one. Avernus and Droewa being very important supporters also.
QDF went from strength to strength achieving victories against tough oponents.. russian gank squads/Burn Eden/the big CA corps.. and yes even Mo0.
At the same time Black Avatar's star began to wane .. joining FA had dealt the Black Avatar an internal blow, pretty much splitting the corp. Some of them left for FA, some stuck around in Querious. QDF stepped into the power vacuum that BA was creating.
QDF never liked CFS, it was anathema to what we were putting together.. where we were in pursuit of order and discipline, CFS was a model of chaos and disorganisation. QDF didn't like FA's modus operandi either (imperialistic interference) but due to Black Avatar's complicated political situation (Black Avatar was part of FA.. ) we had no choice but to back FA when the CFS war started.
Tbh QDF felt it was doing the right thing by putting CFS out of its misery.... saying that QDF was part of UFS could be nothing further from the truth.
IMO QDF was an island of sanity in a South tearing itself to pieces....
HaldaneIV, I hope this sheds some light on the true nature of QDF.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.31 19:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 31/07/2006 19:22:46
Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor
Nez: Excellent post. You are almost 100% correct, but the small percentage that is not does not really matter in the scheme of things.
heh, thanks, I'm a stickler for facts... I'd love to hear which items of what I wrote are slightly off-centre from your point of view ...
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Nez Perces
Amarr
J.H.E.N.R
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Machiavelli7
Incorrect Sil. I was in that fleet. We.. uh... blocked the route to all 3 regions. 
heh yep... infact if we wanted to go into further detail.... the first shot was fired by a QDF admiral...Heavyg.
By some strange coincidence he was also in Black Avatar...but I wouldnt read anything political into that, HeavyG was a trigger happy guy. 
Anyways.. there was no going back after that first shot was fired.. and certainly not when the next day CFS/UFS attempted to storm Querious and take the stations by force with a lot of Krom pilots in tow.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
J.H.E.N.R
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 12:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 07/08/2006 12:23:45
Originally by: Baun
The reason CFS died so fast was because of FIX. They could not easily resupply after those that did fight were blown up the first few times. This really accelerated their demise. Also, the few times you came down to TPAR during the beggining were helpful (as I recall, though it can get confusing between that and Shinra).
The reason CFS died at all was because of FA. We sent a 200man gang (when that was quasi unheard of in terms of size) 45minutes or so after they took the stations. As far as I could tell this completely crushed their spirit. You guys didn't have any interest in Delve or PB until probably over a year after this happened (I am remembering back to when you wanted to POS populate 1 PB or Delve constellation, think it was delve near the pipe but i can't remember), so it is entirely disingenuous to credit yourselves with the death of alliances that did not even live in Querious.
Thats just paraphrasing what I said...
lets put it laymans terms so everybody can understand..
QDF (FIX wasnt born yet) tripped CFS over, they fell and broke their face then we sat on them whilst they were face down..... FA then stepped in and beat them over the head with a big club till all that was left was a bloody pulp.
Wether QDF or FA on their own, could have killed CFS within an acceptable timeframe is debatable... my guess is it would have taken months and months... by which time anything could have happened, with CA and SA taking an active interest in the region, and not exactly happy with FA.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.09 18:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Edison Frisk
so now fix are anti FA to please their current landlords, how times change
I doubt FIX are anymore anti-FA (btw FA is now merged into R.I.S.E) than anybody else is.... at most I would suggest there is indeference, at least that was what I felt when I was in FIX.
However, I think it may be relevant to point out why FIX became indeferent to FA over time and eventually napped BoB and cut FA loose, as opposed to remaining a staunch ally.
After the CFS war QDF/FIX felt it had proven itself as a reasonably powerful entity able to hold its borders and with a certain amount of ambition.
It is my *opinion* that FA failed to capitalise on FIX's military abilities as an ally. After the CFS war, FA had a vote to decide wether FIX should be allowed to govern itself...... the cheek of it. FA also had a condescending attitude towards FIX even at the height of our 'friendship'. It is my view that FA leadership considered FIX to be second class. At one stage FIX let it be known that we had interests in expanding either into Delve or PB.. tbh as an ally we expected FA to assist us in our development.
However, FA made it quite clear that PB and Delve were FA property and were to remain that way.
When the first installment of the SA war broke out with FIX, FA made it clear that their longstanding treaty with SA over-rided their frienship with us, and that only if we requested/begged for assistance would it be given. Infact on one occasion FIX council lost heart during the SA war and sought out Tornsoul to ask for assistance.. I had to contact Tornsoul after the event and over-rule the FIX council. Asking for FA's help would have meant being in debt to them, something which dealings with FA had already proven would be a bad move.
FIX got assaulted by Atuk/BoB/SA, we survived.. primarily because BoB/Atuk realised that SA were not as good as they made out to be and so BoB didn't bother getting fully involved... FIX never lost a fleet battle against SA in the first SA war and SA retired from their assault on 9cg with a bloody nose. I believe this is the first instance in which rifts arose between SA and BoB, previous to this Trigger could do no wrong. I also believe that Tornsoul via an existing working relationship with Trigger, managed to persuade him to look for a peaceful resolution to the war *after* SA found it impossible to break FIX fleets.
BoB continued fighting with FIX but not with the intention of destroying us.. instead their focus switched to Delve and PB and eventually FA prime with the help of Shinra and Atuk.
FIX was willing to assist FA in the defence of their regions, but to be perfectly honest we did not see FA doing enough defending of their own. We started arriving at the conclusion that FA was dead already... and that they weren't defending Delve/PB properly, simply because they didnt have the military to do so.
The funny thing is that even when things were going pete-tong for FA they always managed to retain an air of "ivory-tower" arrogance, whilst continuously underestimating their military capabilities.
For me the above in bold is the primary reason why FIX had no qualms in cutting FA loose and napping BoB, when FA arguably needed an ally the most. BoB then proceeded to systematically evict them from Fountain space. OFC the fact that we liked BoB quite a bit after fighting them for 2/3 months solid was another factor.
Disclaimer : These are my personal recollections of my time as a FIX JCoS, as to why certain things happened the way they did.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.09 18:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nez Perces
For me the above in bold is the primary reason why FIX had no qualms in cutting FA loose and napping BoB, when FA arguably needed an ally the most. BoB then proceeded to systematically evict them from Fountain space. OFC the fact that we liked BoB quite a bit after fighting them for 2/3 months solid was another factor.
... just to add some extra information to this...
FIX also napped BoB so that we could be confident that our western borders were secure. We had identified a new region for expansion... Catch and the very nice constellation holding the FAT station.
What followed was practically uninterrupted hostilities with the Coalition, and the various incarnations of SA/SE and finally CODA... which is more recent history.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.18 00:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Edison Frisk
lovin that fact that this thread is still alive, I want an official max suicide alt post pls, and maybe one from liquidcool.
Funny that you should mention max..
I recieved an in-game mail from him 2 days ago saying that he was thrilled to see this thread getting longer and longer. He can't post as he is perma-banned I believe.
So everybody wave to Max Suicide, as he is probably still keeping an eye on this thread 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.21 11:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
It was interesting to see that the FIX alliance which was basically my idea and instigation lasted so long.
hehe... thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time... it would be more accurate to say that you were one of the main factors that might have stopped it getting off the ground in the first place.
Ascendancy, the corp you were in at the time had been trying to get a joint defense channel (I remember Aeon and Sergi tried several times) to operate for quite a while, just as Fantus has suggested in his post.
The idea of a joint defense channel was NOT a new one for Querious.
The problem it never got off the ground until the Querious Defence Force (QDF), was because every effort till that point had been characterised by political overtones and the intent of scoring political points over other Querious corporations or even with the direct intention of overthrowing Black Avatar.
Efforts by Ascendancy were intended to exclude Black Avatar from the equation, I remember very well being at *sekrit* meetings where things like kicking Black Avatar out of Querious was suggested, meetings usually chaired by yourself Ginger Magician.
QDF was about getting everybody in Querious to work together *for Querious* not for one corp or another, it was a community effort. Ascendancy eventually, in no small part due to yourself, found that its pride got in the way of your participation and so you left or got kicked out depends who you talk to.
QDF was the first genuine military, non-politcal attempt to do something for the inhabitants of the region as opposed to an attempt to overthrow FA, CFS or Black Avatar. Thats why it succeeded, because it was a good thing at heart.. something everybody could see contained no malice or rotten motivations.
It connected the two timezones in Querious, US timezone corps and Euro timezone corps... who to that point did not really get on.
It took 2/3 months of hard work to get the relevant parties (eventually the founding members of FIX), to agree to the project....
... and if you don't mind, out of courtesy, for the time I spent on it, I'll take some amount of credit for spending un ungodly amount of hours getting the show on the road, despite the stubbornness and pride of some of the Querious inhabitants... my god where you a difficult bunch.
It was very easy for anybody to come up with an idea for a joint defense channel for the multidude of corps that lived in Querious.... what was nigh impossible was to get them all to work together in a coherent successful manner.
And only the QDF managed that.
Also I think it was too much of a special thing for any one person to have the cheek to say "It was my idea". QDF was born because it was a necessity, and everybody that came out and fought for the QDF in those early days and subsequently deserves credit for its success.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.21 12:18:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 21/08/2006 12:19:32
From memory (wish I had the original copy), this is the original blueprint for the QDF, that was given to Yodaron for the green light and then touted around every corp in querious through many many personal house calls to corp CEO's.
-------------------------------------------------------
BLUEPRINT for Joint Military Defence Foce. (later named QDF)
- Non-political military entity, the prime directive is to provide a defensive framework for Querious Corporations and the defense of Querious Conquerable stations, irrespective of who holds them.
- Chain of command, initially to be composed of officers with the rank of Admiral. 1st Admiral, 2nd Admiral.. (The first FIX Admiral was Cougar One and I believe the second was Boldyn, 3rd was Heavyg)
- Creation of Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCoS), to act as liasons between the chain of command and the corporations participating. The role is to oversee the development of the project. [The initial JCoS came from Black Avatar(Sheppard), JHENR(Nez Perces), Dark Centuri (Droewa), Ascendancy (Shortlived), Imperium Technologies (Avernus)]
- Creation of a Joint Chat Channel for pvp pilots only.
- All military engagements to take place on TS. (sounds silly.. but you would be surprised how many times Querious gangs did not happen on TS in those days)
- Initial operations to be limited to the A2-pipe, the camping of A2- is discouraged.
-------------------------------------------------------
And thats the recipe that formed the PVP backbone for FIX and I believe still does.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.08.21 17:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nyssa Dakalsai
He has, hes doesnt play anymore, good job really. Hes letting his fame cloud his judgement. Sad really, has no idea what hes doing anymore
Thats rubbish, I got a mail from him the other day and he is online right now.....
No need to wave to max, methinks .. he is right here on this thread isnt he nyssa...
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